Discussion: Religion

I stumbled across this site the other day (looking up Doc Samson of all people). It's an extremely detailed look at the religions of various superheroes, whether they're stated outright or simply implied (Samson's Jewish, by the way, if anyone cares). I had been meaning to post a discussion of what people think Tony's religion might be, and I figured this was as good an excuse as any to actually do it.

On the site, it seems that the majority of the fandom holds that Tony is atheist, while the maintainers of the site themselves hold that he's a “futurist; technologist; mostly secular.” So let's go from there.

I'll admit, I'm not a very smart person, so I'm not sure on the actual use of the word “futurist.” The Oxford English Dictionary (which my school evidently pays for me to use for the analysis of comic books rather than research papers) defines a futurist as someone who either: “believes that the Scripture prophecies, esp. those in the Book of Revelation, are still to be fulfilled in the future” or “one who has regard to or studies the future; a believer in human progress.” Hmm...I'm assuming Tony's more likely to lean towards the second one when defining himself. Oh, and there's something about an Italian art movement, but I think I can probably toss that one out when we're talking about Stark (unless he's trying to learn up for Steve's inevitable return). I feel like I'm missing on some philosophical side of this however, so if someone would be kind enough to fill me in, I'd love you forever :D I love learning <3

Anyway, I'd agree that Tony is mostly secular. I would not, however, call him an atheist. And here, in my humble opinion, is why:

1. His father. Now, Howard Stark comes off as a skeptic to me, the kind of guy who needs proof before he decides anything for certain. He's shown telling tiny Tony that if God exists, He'll have left a message for them in the numbers. It seems to me that Tony would have a similar approach to life in general, not only because he's scientific-minded, but also because he would probably do anything he could to gain approval from his ever disapproving father (something I've touched on before), including trying to figure out how π = God. Also of note: As far as I know, we're never given any hint of what religion Maria Stark followed. While I think we can say Howard influenced Tony's professional life, I think it could be argued that Maria probably had more of an influence on his personal life.
   


2. He's seen praying and makes reference to prayer on a number of occasions. He's seen praying at Rumiko's casket and before he (we assume) pulled the plug on Happy. He makes reference to praying that everything would work out okay for Bruce Banner when they shot him up into space (though he knew Hulky had landed on the wrong planet). He could all be going through the motions, and I think he certain does do that when it comes to things like social events (the Stark reputation anyone?), but I don't think he would bother faking it with something like this.
   


3. Alcoholics Anonymous. A major part of AA is giving yourself up to a Higher Power and believing that only this Power can restore a your sanity. Now, with that said, there are of course secular AA groups out there, and really, that Higher Power can be whatever you really want it to be, not necessarily God, so long as it's motivation enough to get you clean, so this point is a bit weaker than the others. But, Tony is shown going to AA meetings with Carol Danvers and we've meet his sponsor (Henry Hellrung, for anyone that missed that).


4. He's lived and worked with Thor and Ares. Now, I'm not saying that makes him a believer – after all, didn't he keep a hair of Thor's to DNA test if he was actually a god (which would later lead to Clone-Thor)? I'm just saying, living and employing a god would at the very least make you open to the idea.


5. Tony has been to Hell. Liek srsly yo. Even met his dad there. Mind you, Tony's seen a lot of weird things in his life, but I'm pretty sure that might have traumatized him just a little bit. Fear of God kind of traumatize? Hard to say.

As said, the majority of fans quoted on the site believe that he's atheist, basing this off of the Infinity Crusade limited series during which he tells the Goddess that he puts his faith in science. To me, this means he prefers to have something material to hold onto, but doesn't mean he doesn't believe in something greater (otherwise, why would be bother praying?) Plus there's the fact that this 'Goddess' had just kidnapped a bunch of his friends so they would go make holy war. He was probably not the most open person at the time.

So, I know it's a bit risky to do any sort of religious discussion, but I'm interested in seeing what you all think.

Please comment here or here

Discussion: Bi Tony?

Happy National Coming Out Day everyone! To celebrate, we're going to talk a little bit about how Tony is



Okay, okay, we all know about Tony's great number of sexual conquests of the female persuasion, but you have to admit, there are times when he just comes off as, well, a little gay. Not doubt there was a reason for all the innuendos in the movie (even if it was all in jest).

Now, I could talk about how he used to strip down in front of Rhodey every other issue. I could talk about his absolutely amazing fashion sense.

But, personally, I prefer to look at what he does in private, the inner monologues, the sealed off angst. Because it's one thing for him to act a certain way, and a very different thing for him to think a certain way.

Of course, it's all reading into subtext -- Tony has never been shown in a relationship with a man. But I come from a long tradition of yaoi fandoms, most of which don't even have the subtext part.

It's interesting though, because it seems to me that it's fairly accepted part of the fandom. Well, maybe not "accepted" so much as "yeah it's there." Or has my yaoi-raddled mind gotten it all wrong? Now that I've gone out and spammed this blog in places other than just slash communities, I'd be really interested in seeing the general feeling out there.

How do you all feel about the possibility of Tony being bisexual? Do you think this is all just crazy-talk? Would you want him to come out?

And please, I know this can be a very heated topic, so please keep it clean. It's supposed to be a discussion of the character, not of morality or politics. Thanks.

And, as an ending note, I think Ultimate Jarvis makes a fairly good point:


P.S. I'll do a more serious post about this later. I just figured I couldn't let today slip by without post something on the topic.

Discussion: Post Secret Invasion

I posted something a bit like this on cap_ironman not too long ago, but I wanted to start a discussion more towards the future of the Iron Man storyline.

So, if for some reason you haven't heard, the Iron Man movie comes out on DVD today. Marvel's website has been promoting it for about two weeks now, releasing articles and exclusive digital comics (this week, an Iron Man comic is going to be put up in the archive everyday, finishing off vol. 3). Now, I can understand the digital comics, as well as the abundance of text they've put up, but I have to say releasing a psychological profile telling us how crazy the main character is or a fake news story detailing that his company might be going under is a very odd way to promote a movie.

It is, however, a very good way to promote the next big story arc, World's Most Wanted, in the Invincible Iron Man title. Matt Fraction's been saying for a while now that he's going to bring Tony to his knees. General fan reaction seems to be "About damn time!"

So, let's take a look at some of the more unsubtle foreshadowing these two pieces have to offer. Personally, the more interesting one is the Psych Ward article:

...What has not been formerly diagnosed on Axis I, but in the opinion of the writer should be, is major depressive disorder.

Well no sh*t.

As such, it is the recommendation of staff that the client be closely monitored, with weekly physical exams, until such time as conclusive data on the health benefits of Extremis can be generated....

...While he has not had a drink in some time, he also has not attended any meetings because, he claims, he's "too busy." The writer has informed the client that this is the claim of many who lose touch with the program and thus relapse...

...Recommendations that he take a leave have not been accepted.

Now, it's been said that Tony won't have use of the Extremis after Secret Invasion (which is disappointing), so we can check one of those off the list. Now for the falling the wagon bit...

As a side note, I kind of wanted Doc Samson to turn out to be the Red Hulk only so Tony could say that his last therapist went on a rampage and killed Abomination. That would have been awesome.

But in the wake of a troubled economy and coupled with the recent death of Happy Hogan and the further injury of executive Pepper Potts and the global malfunction of their technology, Stark Enterprises is facing a series of misfortunes that, if continued, could result in a total financial collapse – one that even the Invincible Iron Man can not save them from.

So this one pretty much has a big red arrow one it saying "LOOK FOR ME IN ISSUE #8!!!" Not only does it have the title of the freakin comic in it, but it's also a well worn path that Tony (or rather, his writers) have taken many times before. I'll admit, if the big thing that ends up crushing Tony is another problem with his company, I'll be disappointed. I'd much rather see Tony's break down be ramifications from all the crap that's happened since Civil War than his company imploding again.

Also, I totally just realized: right now in Tony's life there is a Stane that may or may not lead to the collapse of Stark Industries, causing Tony to go back to the bottle. Good lord.

Now, in celebration of...movie release? New site? Having Readers? Tony's inevitable break down? Let's have a little discussion of where we all think the future of the IIM series is going. How will it happen? What will happen? And, an odd question, what do you hope will happen?

Personally? I think Tony's going to be blamed for the Starktech Network failure that happened during Secret Invasion, leading to Stark Industries/Enterprises/International/Circuits Maximus crashing.

What I would like to see?

Big, public breakdown. Proof Tony Stark has a heart.